“Wild West” argument in 2nd Amendment debate getting dismantled here at home
As I continue to catch up from my weekend I’m pulling out the parts of the Sunday paper I had read and taken notes on. The print version of the Living in LoCo blog directed me to a post over there that I’d missed when it first came up. The post, titled “Packing Heat in Loudoun” details the Kaine veto of a recently passed bill that would have permitted restaurant owners to make up their own minds as to whether or not they would allow concealed weapons in their establishments. Briefly, I’d like to point out some really clueless commentary from our state Senator Mark Herring (D) who voted against the bill:
Herring did not support the bill. “Drinking alcohol and carrying firearms is not a good mix. It’s a public safety issue. There was no compelling case for loosening the restriction on carrying a concealed weapon into bars.”
From this, I gather that Herring never actually read the bill. The language of the proposed law explicitly stated that CCW holders would not be allowed to drink if they chose to enter the place with their concealed weapon. So “[d]rinking alcohol and carrying firearms” was never an issue with this law. Add to that the fact that carrying the weapon openly holstered, strapped to your leg is completely legal whether you choose to drink or not. The entire issue of the bill was in allowing the owner of the place to decide whether he’d permit it or not. Herring’s just dead wrong on this issue in a number of ways.
My point in this post, however, is to highlight some information the blogger at Living in LoCo, Erica Garman, brought to light. Have a look here:
From circuit court records I obtained yesterday, 765 Loudoun residents were issued concealed handgun permits in 2007. That’s a 27 percent increase from 2006 (602 permits). Since January this year, 220 permits have been granted — indicating that there will be a significant increase of citizens “packing heat” in 2008 as well.
Now, those of you living in Loudoun, answer me this. Based on your recollection of the news coverage, have shootings in Loudoun County increased by nearly a third since last year? And note the figure for this year so far: 220 permits granted since January. If that holds at 220 in the 1st quarter of the year and proceeds to average that figure through the other 3 quarters, then 2008 will see almost 900 permits issued. That’ll be another 15% increase, and increase of 46% between 2006 and 2008. With all of those guns in the hands of all of those private citizens - concealed, of course - the Wild West theory says shootings will rise sharply as simple arguments turn deadly, people shoot each other over parking spaces, and suddenly-drunken Loudouners start killing each other in bars and restaurants.
But a funny thing happened on the way there - it hasn’t happened. Increased numbers of concealed weapons holders has not resulting in increased shootings. I don’t have statistics for 2007 yet but it will be interesting to see if, as I suspect, that increase in CCW holders has a corresponding decrease in crime activity connected to it.
I’m a resident of northern Virginia, near Washington, DC. By profession, I’m a network engineer for a very, very large company in the IT field. I work with several federal agencies in my job. Politically, I lean conservative on most issues dealing with matters of law, finance, national security, and personal responsibility. I’m more moderate in the social arena but don’t confuse that with the so-called “liberal” stance. You’ll get the picture.
[...] over on WTOP has another interesting statistic regarding concealed weapons here in Virginia. As was shown earlier on a more local basis, the number of concealed weapon permit applications in Virginia has increased dramatically - 2007 [...]
I hope you don’t spend much time in Las Vegas if you’re willing to bet such a poor hand.
Florida, the first state to pass the new wave of CCW laws about 30 years ago keeps a very close view on those same people. Their experience over the past years: Crime rates involving CCW holders has held steady at about 0.02 percent.
Now, that’s any kind of crime including cheating on income taxes, which has nothing to do with a gun.
And 0.02 percent translates out to 2 people out of ten thousand. Not exactly the crime wave by psychos you are concerned about, eh?
Actually, out of the half million or so that Florida has issued they have cancelled 109. Virgina has issued about 50,000 and have cancelled none. Arizona has issued about 63,000 and has cancelled none. Of course, since those reports came out they may have cancelled a few, but everyone gets the picture.
In Oregon only 4 people out of 14,000 (0.03 percent) have been convicted of a crime with a gun. In Texas out of a quarter million CCW holders only 100 have been found guilty of a felony (not even necessarily with a gun). Again, that is only 1 people out of every 2500 CCW holders.
And in a column by Stephen Chapman of the Chicago Tribune he wrote:
Indiana, which has about 350,000 permit holders, canceled 921 last year, or about one-fourth of 1 percent of the total. Maj. Karen Butts, commander of the records division of the state police, says, “I can’t think of any that were revoked for a firearms homicide.” Among Utah’s 40,000 licensees, only five have lost their privileges because of a conviction for murder or attempted murder.
BTW… all this can be found in the free download Gun Facts at http://www.gunfacts.info.
If you’re truly interested in getting the facts instead of hysterical info this is the place to go.
OK, Jack, I’m not sure what blog entry you were reading, but it’s pretty clear that it wasn’t mine. This post was regarding the failure of Virginia’s General Assembly to pass a pass a law permitting the owners of restaurants to make the decision about whether or not to permit concealed carry in their establishments as opposed to the illegal status such carry has today. As I clearly stated, the current law permits open carry and does not restrict my ability to legally drink while doing so. Even if I were a licensed CCW firearms owner, I am not permitted to carry concealed in a restaurant that serves alcohol today, even if I don’t drink. The rationale of the people who voted against this bill is their contention that CCW holders would hootch it up in these restaurants and start playing shoot-out at the OK Corral.
The anecdotal evidence I proposed actually matches your statistics just fine: with the massive percentage increase in CCW holders in Loudoun, the shooting rate hasn’t budged at tic. That tells me that CCW holders are - surprise! - law-abiding and aren’t disposed to drawing their weapons at the drop of a casual insult. That’s not “hysterical info,” that’s direct observation by someone who lives here. And, I might add, it’s in agreement with what your contention appears to be: that CCW holders are basically law-abiding people who are not a threat to the community.
Perhaps you dropped your comment on the wrong blog?