LCRC meeting after-action report
As promised, I attended the meeting of the LCRC tonight in Leesburg and found it very enlightening for a whole host of reasons.
Right off the bat, however, I want to highlight that Chairman Paul Protic has said that he will not toss his hat in the ring for another term as Chairman. He said it’s time for him to take a break and that’s all she wrote. The Chairman’s race is now wide open.
The first reason for the enlightened feeling was finding out that Roger Zurn reads this blog! He walked up and introduced himself, having concluded that I really am the guy with the gray goatee that was sitting quietly over in the corner. I’m honored in the extreme that he reads this stuff I scribble (he and Randy Minchew) and, it turns out, he agrees with much of my commentary regarding the atmosphere at the LCRC. Tonight, he stood up and said as much.
“For the past 8 years we Republicans have been eating our own young,” he said. That comment alone tells me he gets it and gets it dead center. He’s tired of it and he’s tired of losing. He thinks we should move past this in-flighting that’s being done. We should send out the message that the party’s re-formation in March will be a welcome to all conservatives – moderate and not so, social, fiscal, defense, whatever. We should not be afraid of or condescending to fellow conservatives who disagree with us on the 20% while agreeing on the 80%.
That said, he also feels that once the discussions are done and the vote taken, it’s critical that members of the party abide by the decision made by the party. I agree. That’s going to be the tough part, though, with so many unwilling to do so. His remarks drew applause from most but I took note of those that didn’t join in. His remark about welcoming back to the party those who have been disaffected drew a very pointed glance from Dale Myers to the man sitting next to her and she very deliberately kept her hands still while the rest of us applauded Zurn’s remarks.
I also met Dean Settle there and I’m glad I finally did. I let that go too long without shaking the man’s hand and Dean, if you’re listening, I appreciate you walking over. Our conversation has sparked enough interest for me to… well, stay interested until we see what happens closer to March.
This is a long post, so bear with me.
Ahead of the meeting start I saw Vincent of Too Conservative fame working the signatures petition for getting Mike Huckabee on the Virginia ballot. I found it interesting to note that Eugene Delgaudio refused to sign it. Wonder why… There was also another gentleman there pushing signatures for Ron Paul but he wasn’t generating much buzz.
The meeting started with Paul Protic addressing the LCRC to offer his congrats to the winners of the races while also acknowledging the losses. He quoted Teddy Roosevelt in recognizing that those who made the attempt, win or lose, were worthy of admiration. For what it’s worth, I agree. He also offered congratulations to “our worthy opponents” and wished them the best in taking up the challenges of leadership of this county. Finally, he offered thanks to the officers and members of the party and particularly to the volunteers who worked the campaigns.
In his view, the obstacles that presented themselves in this election and were the cause of our defeat were 1) a general anti-GOP feeling in the country, some of that trickling down from the federal stage and building upon the normal “voter fatigue” of having a President in his 7th year in office, 2) the changing demographics of Loudoun, which were worse that the LCRC figured on, and 3) the growth issue, which “made it difficult to have a unified party.”
That last one was an understatement. People don’t like watching ill-behaved children fight with each other and they sure don’t elect people who act that way into office. Moreover, there were other issues that worked against us, not the least of which was the sadly underwhelming effort by the party to work on the behalf of their candidates. Lori Waters was actively opposed by certain members of the LCRC, people who have argued for party loyalty. Those same people continued tonight to throw stones at this woman. She ran a good campaign, won overwhelmingly in the nomination fight, had to work a 3-way election race due to the decision by her nomination opponent to break his oath and run as an independent, won that race decisively for the Republican party and still people were trying to cut down on her. Pathetic and short sighted.
All of this combined with a perception that the GOP isn’t interested in fixing the problems we have here in Loudoun (as opposed to pressing their social agenda) was what led to the election-day beatdown. Protic, of course, didn’t mention any of that.
As I mentioned, he took the opportunity to announce he’d not seek another term as Chairman. Regardless of how one feels about him, I think that’s the best move to make. He advised us that the Mass Meeting is tentatively scheduled for March 15th, so you might want to pencil that in.
Bruce Tulloch’s remarks were on-point and, I thought, probably the best speaking I’ve heard him do since I’ve known of him. My feelings about him are on record, but he posed a very good question regarding this outgoing board: What would have happened if it had not been elected to office 4 years ago? What would things be like had that previous board not been sent packing? In the aggregate, are we worse off, or better? I know I’ll likely draw fire from Tulloch’s more vocal opponents for this, but I think we’d have been much, much worse off that before. Dean Settle looks at the 17K houses approved in the past 4 years and the demands on infrastructure and would likely conclude differently than I do but I can’t see that the previous board’s re-election 4 years ago as anything but a disaster.
Growth, you see, is going to be one of those things we all need to have a real discussion about. We haven’t had one recently, not really. We’ve yelled past each other, but we haven’t really discussed. Perhaps we can start doing that now. There were plenty of signs of the previous purity-hunters still going at it. Sally Mann’s still frothing on about her FOIA requests and how Lori Waters (who she said she didn’t want to be negative about just before she started slinging more mud) isn’t giving her all the information she’s been asking for and yada, yada, yada.
Enough, I say. There’s been plenty of crap flying from both sides and I’m just tired of it. Waters won her election and I’m damned glad of it. Get off her back. People are sending their anonymous e-mails being offensive for no good reason. Knock it off. Some people are going to be crass little jackasses and send them anyway. Dump them in the trash and don’t waste thought processes on them. The rest of us are tired of it and don’t want to hear about the personal little dramas when we’re getting our collective asses kicked every election day. As I said to Dean, I detect some signs that some of us are starting to get it. It gives me hope, but the people sending toxic fumes into the air with every exhale they make are still in there, too. Let’s see what happens in the next month or so and see if the lessons given by the voters this year are taken to heart.
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First off, it was great to meet ya…although I kept looking for the goatee thru alot of the meeting. There were exactly three gray goatees in attendance. You…me…and the Logistics Chair . Process of elimination, as well as Clint and I knowing it wasn’t us…
I’m hopeful in what I saw, Ric. I really am.
Dale Polen Myers has been nuetralized (for now) and her recent endorsement of two Independents has knocked her proverbial feet out from under her for a couple of months. This IS the time to exploit that and build a unified Party Committee devoid of a primary builder interest.
The illegal alien and fiscal conservatives are ready to come to the table together, and those two blocks can be trusted with good solid winning folks. So I hope the wedge that is splitting out those bastard CPR and builder folks keeps on doing it’s job. We’ll all be better in the long term by selecting a reasonable and sane chairman who does not cater to DPM and her minions, but accepts ALL, and helps us sort out the 20% issues.
Having attended the meeting, I too hope we can sort out the 20% that seperates us. I would like to think this could be done quickly , we will see.
I agree that Bruce Tullochs comments were on the mark . His remarks taking to task those who supported and encourgaged the independent candidates splitting from the party needed to be said.
Those of us Conservatives fighting for fiscal responsibility as well as local action on illegal migration are readay and willing to roll up our sleeves and get to work.
This should be very intresting.
This meeting was the first necessary step back from the abyss. There were so many positive things said last night by Tulloch, Zurn and the last gentleman who spoke who’s name I did not catch. I hope that it does begin the healing process amongst a very fractured party.
The one thing that has to end are these public calls for purity and purging. There is only one test in my mind: are you here to help get Republican’s elected? If your not just leave the organization, you don’t have to be here. If you haven’t always in the past, its time to redouble your efforts for the future. Let’s face it, there have been plenty of individual vendettas out there that have caused a lot of these rifts. The LCRC needs to put those in its rearview mirror and have leadership for the future that represents the big tent of the party.
I hope we return to the Big Tent Party that we need to be in Loudoun County to survive.
Lori Waters needs to live by the “rules” she expects others to abide by, or she will have no respect. Where was she last night and why isn’t she there to thank us and to ask for unity?
Yes, I am asking that especially our elected leaders and our candidates, who are the face of our party, not campaign openly against other Republicans–even Lori Waters, and even though it was a successful tactic for HER to win. Ms. Waters published two full page ads the week before the election, one against Steve Snow and one promoting Scott York–with her picture and a slogan “We Love Scott York.” She also blogs anonymously on the internet openly critical of the Republican party. Many FOIA emails reveal how divisive and undermining she has been to the party, working with Scott York and Jim Burton. She, along with Jeff Wolinski, a member of the committee, who blogs as Loudoun Insider, should be specifically talked to, and asked to stop, and THEY need to work with the others. Not the other way around.
I will not give money to the party, if they do not insist behavior stop –like that of Mr. Wolinski’s and Ms. Waters during the last few years.
Ms. Mann, you claim Ms. Waters blogs anonymously on the internet. Interesting accusation.
Now prove it.
If you can’t show where, when, and how any blog post is connected to her then it’s nothing more than your suspicions and that’s not good enough, not by half. I have no idea what your vendetta is and I couldn’t possibly care less. This incessant bickering, most especially the kind without any verifiable basis, is the large part of the problem with the public perception of the GOP here and I’m tired of it.
It’s put up or shut time, Ms. Mann. If you have proof, display it. If all you have are accusations then do the party a favor and keep them to yourself until you do have the proof.
As to those ads, I was in the back of the room sitting at the table near Eugene Delgaudio, Bruce Tulloch, Roger Zurn, and Gary Clemens, among others I don’t know. Virtually all of them remarked on your comment in the meeting that Lori Waters had nothing to do with those – those were Scott York’s idea. Got proof she authorized or paid for them? Cough it up and let’s all look at it. If you don’t, same suggestion applies. Ditto the e-mails and Jeff Wolinski. Get it out there or get over it.
Lori Waters ran a full page ad with a Halloween theme in Leesburg Today less than a week before the election very critical of
Steve Snow. That was wrong. Did the money that I gave to the party support that in any way? Even in the League of Women Voters debate she brought up the email that Snow had already apologized for, that was never intended to be public–claiming that something someone else said was his vendetta against her. It’s ok for the Washington Post to exploit one email they found on Snow’s account, but it is not ok for us to look at the MANY emails that Ms. Waters wrote, very divisive, very insulting, etc. against other Republicans. Or to examine what Jeff Wolinski has said?
Everyone has “vendettas” against Ms. Waters–not so, she is the one undermining the others, with her supporters constantly blogging on Leesburg Today, and Too Conservative. She got the VLF endorsement, so why not tell them she only wanted to run with her own picture in their ads? She obviously was part of it all…Scott York ran ads with her picture and “We love Scott York” without her permission? and she said nothing?
I understand she has blogged anonymously as Tired of the Good Ole Boys and Girls on the Too Conservative site. The emails that I have obtained through FOIA’s show a clear pattern of undermining other Republicans. They also show that Jeff Wolinski is Loudoun Insider who without a doubt has consistently attacked Republicans. I have plenty of proof, and have given it to many folks to look at. Would you like to see the reams of information I have? And will you publish it? Some of those people who sat next to you have expressed support for me. Not sure what Bruce Tulloch’s deal is, especially since Wolinski and York and others attacked him and accused him of many unfounded speculative things (like inside knowledge of FBI inquiries, indictments coming, etc.) Our leaders have undermined the others with really inappropriate tactics and it has to stop. I know Zurn supports Lori Waters. He needs to be a real leader and we all need to debate openly and honestly, not behind pseudo names, with organized character assassinations of other members of the party. He should take a stand that full page ads against other Republicans right before the election is wrong, and the local committee will not further support candidates who misuse our money to publicly attack other Republicans. You should too.
Proof, Ms. Mann. Not more accusations, proof. Accusing someone of being behind an alias is not proof that they are. This is pretty simple, if you have proof that Lori Waters is the person behind those aliases, bring it on. If all you’re going to do is point fingers and accuse her without showing how you know this – and I mean know, not suspect – then we’re done.
You have proof she paid for those ads? Show it.
And, frankly, if I’d had to have dealings with someone who tossed accusations around and never proved them, I’d likely write a disparaging e-mail about them to my friends, too, whether they were Republicans or not. You want to upload those e-mails to me with validation that they’ve not been tampered with, sure I’ll look at them. I’ll even post them, right here. Feel free.
But until you come up with more than just accusations, then you’ve had your 15 minutes of my time. I have important matters to deal with.
Good day, madam.
Dear Ms. Mann,
A simple yes or no answer please:
After your statement about the need for Republican loyalty, you were accused by Mr. Wolinski of giving your FOIA collection of Lori Waters e-mails to her Democratic opponent, Phyllis Randall.
Did you or did you not do this?
Lastly, allow me to respectfully reiterate what others in the LCRC have told you: You need to drop this obsession with Lori Water’s e-mails and go on with your life.
This woman has an outrageous vendetta against Lori Waters that will apparently never end. Of course this goes back to Waters not voting for her own land use matter.
Lori Waters didn’t take out a full page ad attacking Steve Snow, she simply used his insulting email about her as evidence of a deep rooted effort to get rid of her by Snow and his ilk. The Scott York ads were just that – Scott York ads. He chose to endorse her, not the other way around. York’s opponent, Mike Firetti, told Lori that “they would keep suing her and suing her”. Firetti’s campaign manager Brian Roherty sat in the peanut gallery through Mann’s FOIA cases and shepherded her through the county offices.
The developer cabal started this war against Lori Waters and she finished it. Very decisively I might add. They had no clue who they were messing with, and she’s tougher than any of them.
I spoke with Lori again today about Phyllis Randall, and Phyllis asked Lori “who is this Sally Mann woman?” at an event they attended prior to the election. Phyllis said Sally Mann emailed her offering her the fruits of her FOIA barrage against Lori Waters.
As far as her proof that I am Loudoun Insider, it is nothing of the sort. I know this since I am only one of two people with full access to her FOIA requested emails. I’ll neither confirm nor deny to let those who want to know so bad continue to twist in the wind.
To all LCRC members, get prepared to hear about this every meeting for the rest of your lives.
Peter Simpson, the answer is NO.
Jeff Wolinski, you are the one that the LCRC is sick to death of hearing from, all the emails all over the state complaining about everything, everyone and anyone. Nonstop libelous–completely disrespectful– blogging about all of the Republican candidates and Jack Ryan who you especially hate, making up things like I called Phyllis Randall, just saying anything, when you know that on your very own blog, Ms. Randall’s campaign said that she had never spoken to me, only seen me at the LWV debate–and you have the gall to call Bruce Tulloch a compulsive liar in your emails… You got issues. And Lori Waters has issues too, because of you.
Ric James, the full page ad attacking Snow (who did not attack Ms. Waters) was paid for by the Lori Waters campaign. No one disputes that. And personally, I think it was dishonorable of Ms. Waters to participate in Scott York’s campaign by allowing her photo to be used with the We love Scott York slogan–she should have nipped that in the bud. I don’t buy it that she had nothing to do with it, and that she was not in on it from the very beginning. Common sense. I can give you proof with other emails but you are so hostile, that I fear it is a waste of time. Accusing me of changing the emails is silly….why don’t you FOIA my FOIA if you want to get it directly from Ms. Waters. Seems to me though, you are not really interested in the issue or the truth of the matter. Others do think it is serious.
Nothing is going to change unless some people change the way they do business. Debate is good, but false character assassinations are not. Loudoun Insider continuing to bash the LCRC as somehow corrupt/closed or all the other things they say falsely is just wrong–I think Paul Protic is amazingly open minded to allow Vince and Jeff and Dean Settle to hang around, speak, get signatures for petitions, when they contributed so greatly to the Gang of FIve campaign and did everything in their power to get Scott York elected and the “Five” booted out. I personally don’t want people like that hanging around at committee meetings, just waiting to attack everyone, again.
Ric, you say Lori Waters was actively opposed by members of the LCRC–prove it. Not True. The hard evidence is that she is the one who actively opposed Republicans.
What’s this “we”, white woman?? You joined the LCRC a mere month ago, and now you’re speaking for them? Backup, there Sally.
A good number of us, and I do mean a good number of us, have weathered tougher waters together. Ric, Jeff, myself, Mr. Minchew, Mr. Higgins, …hell…..a whole host of other good republicans have weathered the 10th District Convention together, as well as a very large number of other meetings together, and all the other dinners and sub-committee meetings together. Suffice it to say that we all know each other civilly and as much more in certain situations, dependent on the circumstances.
You show up at your first?? meeting, and all the sudden, you’re running the committee? You’re not going to give money to the Party until you get your way?? Somebody should show you the door, in that case. The Committee is not for sale to you or anybody else, lady. It’s an honorable association that’s a little confused right now. But do not think for a second that you can walk in and define or even attempt to identify with any certainty the actual terrain of the Committee. You’re a newbie, and in these cases it’s best to get the lay of the land before shooting your mouth off.
I laughed outright, as did the “real” Tired of the Good Ole Boys on your mention that it represented Ms. Waters. Does everything that you imagine become your truth, or do you actually pull facts for input on any particular discussions. I haven’t seen you do it yet, so I had to ask.
Furthermore, I can hang around because I have a sincere interest in where the Party goes, and whether it can recover and gain strength, or if it is destined to continue the downward spiral that it took for 4 years.
As an optimist, I see better days, but they’ll have to be worked for…
There are no doubt three people out of the 80-90 that attended who might say anything about me (never to my face) but the majority of us have over 4 years of history, and we’re exceedingly more civil that you are capable of being.
I did not just join a month ago. i guess you think it is “civil” conversation to start out your post calling me White Woman. Can’t imagine someone like Randy Minchew talking that way. I was at the convention where you were performing your super secret watch lists. Have you forgotten already??? Look, I think Randy Minchew and Geary Higgins and Gary Clemmons are wonderful folks, very professinal and very positive. We need more people like that. I wish that you and Jeff would contribute so positively towards the dialogue/debate, working with people to polish them and help them instead of just mercilessly attacking them, suggesting things about say Firetti’s wife, making up stuff about him not living in Loudoun, etc. == and that Ms. Waters would also get on board to STOP bashing other Republicans behind the scenes. There is excessive residential capacity, and a huge slow down. We have a lot of common ground and all the personal stuff/vendettas that you all seem so hung up on needs to end. My point is that the Committee should have rules to govern how its money and support is spent, and it should not be spent on candidates who are bashing other Republicans… why is that such a controversial idea? Republicans should not be undermining other Republicans. I think Rules like this would go a long way towards “unity.”
Quickly. Where were you during the 10th District Conventions? Where were you during the 2003 election cycle? The 2004 cycle?
Nuff said. I was already in the trenches.
Read back. Where did I quote Mr. Minchew as saying ANYTHING?? The text is a poetic take on the old indian joke…and pretty fitting, taken the temper of your word to imply that you now “speak” for the committee that I’ve been a member of most recently within two years, but previosly some four years ago.
At last, we agree. Randy Minchew, Geary Higgins and Gary Clemmons are indeed fantastic folks. I’m having beers with Gearry later in the week. Gary attends my church….er…I attend his. Randy is one of my most trusted “go-to” guys for procedural matters.
Anybody else you admire? I’m probably talking to them this week. I run in those circles, and I have for alot of years.
Sally, I’m a card-carrying member of the National Republican Party. That is the dominate power over 50 state Republican Committees. Those 50 Committees oversee their states via District offices that represent smaller City and County committees. You are a dues paying member of the subordinate Loudoun County Committee, while I am a member of the organization at the upper end of that chain. And as a NEW member of that committee, you’re trying to tell me that I shoudn’t attend their meetings?? Do you see how silly you sound?
I think it’s comical and juvenile that you actually used the word vendetta in your diatribe. There’s probably a picture of you in the dictionary next to it.
Glad to see the LCRC has opened up the tent and attracted new members like Ms. Mann.
Ugh – this dialogue isn’t a way up and forward. In the software industry, there’s a term for this phase of solution creation – it’s called the “trough of disillusionment”, where reality, setback, lack of funding, whatever rears its Darwinian head and applies the brakes to all progress, in favor of collaborative, informed, market and physics-driven reconstitution. Only that which evolves quickly and is managed effectively escapes. LCRC is there – but this dialogue is still more of the downward slope than the upward.
Dean, I don’t care how you impressed you are with yourself. You are nothing like those folks, and it is a testament to them that they are still polite to you. Truth is you are an extremist, who must have your way EXACLY or you go into rampage mode. This has to stop. And Lori Waters/Jeff Wolinkski need to change too. Scott York is no longer a Republican, and carrying out HIS wishes to get rid of people and HIS weird thing with Dale Myers is wrong… THEY need to stop. Truth is, for example, on the growth issue, the “compromise” that was adopted was very close to Clem Burton. We were all closer together than the rhetoric would make anyone think, and it is the very negative rhetoric that needs to be addressed now early on in the new cycle. Frankly, I am really tired of all the complaints about Dale Myers, and others personally, like Eve Barner, and Paul Protic. They are in the trenches, Dean, they are the ones working hard to elect Republicans, not you. You need to take a deep breath and work with and be polite/respectful to everyone, not just the ones you “like.” And I believe that the Committee should talk to both Lori Waters and Jeff Wolinski about their anonymous blogging, and we should all be on board together to move forward.
How about this: all of this stop now. Seriously Ms. Mann, if you want to be a part of the LCRC and making things better for the future in Loudoun County it is time to put it all behind you and move forward. Same for you Mr. Wollinski. All of this is noise that we don’t need and has no room in our County Party. If we were in third grade I’d think you two have a crush on each other.
Ric, by the way, fantastic Blog.
I second that – fantastic blog!
I agree with you, Common Sense Republican, but if you were at that meeting you saw who started this once again. I will not sit idly by while people take uncalled for potshots at an honorable civil servant. Watch out what you imply about Mrs. Mann or you will also be on the receiving end of endless lawsuit threats.
I was there, I recognize who stood up first, but enough is enough. I implore you to be the bigger man and turn the other cheek for the greater good. I imply nothing about Mrs. Mann, I ask her the same: stand down.
I’m not impressed with myself, Sally. Truth is, I’m a simple man who doesn’t take crap from anybody.
But at the social level, I do try to be pleasant and approach any rational discussion with an open mind.
(much as I did when I set aside my preconceptions about your land case and accepted to hear your side of the story last year. Which incidentally turned into crap when I interviewed NUMEROUS sources that all said they’d prefer it if they never had to talk to you ever again. They said YOU were extreme)
I just tried to explain to you in layman’s terms why you need to explore the lay of the land before you stomp in with you new friends and start claiming high ground.
I explained the hierarchy for you…Which you have no grasp of , and which you immediately dismissed as my attempt to tell you how great I am.
You deliberately ignored the fact that I am a card-carrying member of the top of the Republican organization because it undermined your effort to say I shouldn’t be allowed in LCRC meetings. In cold.hard fact…The NRP is the reason there is an LCRC.
Going further…You never answered the question that I posed. Where, exactly were you during the 10th District Convention? You mention the Loudoun County Convention, but I did not ask about that one. I asked about the Convention of the whole District. Can you even grasp the boundaries of that District?
Then you rollout a list of your new friends, which are in fact, my old friends, and use THEIR service to the committee as your own? Pathetic. There is no stretch in the fact that they are polite to me. We actually like each other…..we have associations formed over a minimum of four years, and a few I’ve known since 1980. I meet with them socially, as well as a whole host of others in the LCRC on a ongoing basis. When we attend social functions in the community, it’s always the same usual suspects, and it’s ALWAYS cordial, whether we disagree, or not.
You act like the world stops interacting when you leave to go home. That’s pretty small-minded, I’d think.
The fact is, you got caught spewing idiocy that you have no idea about because you rushed right in and ignored the pleasant associations that have existed for years without your help or knowledge, and that you now are trying desperately to depict as something else to help you get out of the mud you slipped in.
And here’s the thing. I think that your own life is so combative….your own thought process is so driven towards exxtreme values, that you see the rest of the world as being combative and extreme. Even in places where it does not exist. That discussion occurred with one of your “new” friends Monday night. It’ll more than likely expound later this week when we catch up to each other.
Pretty neat blog. Glad to here folks are talking about the LCRC. I am sorry I missed the meeting on Monday and it was LCHS….it has never been that far west and I missed it.
As to the back and forth on this one issue, I wonder what Rodney King would say…….
Ms. Mann’s rant exemplies the mindless blabbing and bickering that has divided the party. It should never have been tolerated in the, and thank goodness Mary Gail Swenson had the good sense to make a point of order.
Dean it is interesting that you are such an expert on my life when you do not even know me. You have never tried to “help” me. You have threatened me, blogged incessantly against me, called me names–I don’t call that “help.” It would be nice if you would talk to me instead of glaring at me, threatening me and making up stuff in blogs that ends up getting deleted because it is so off base or offensive. Common Idiot, I honestly believe that the York faction took over Lori Waters and she lost her course somewhat. She could have won, without, for example, attacking Steve Snow or Mike Firetti, or running with York. And many would have had exponentially more respect for her as a result. But she (and York) wanted them to lose. I have some real problems with the way Jeff Wolinski handled himself, but I am hopeful that what York has said is true, that this is his last term, and that maybe the York division will finally be over and the party can heal. I think if Bob Gordon had won, things would have been really different, and that this last group of Republicans took too much time to learn to work together…. We had good people running, but they needed help forming, polishing, focusing and getting out a cohesive message earlier. Scott York and crew had a good year’s lead on his message…and it worked.
I am Jeff Wolinski and I have a problem with the way Sally Mann has handled herself. Lori Waters did not attack Steve Snow and Mike Firetti. She simply reprinted Snow’s nasty email about her with no commentary about Snow as an example of the deep rooted developer opposition to her candidacy within the LCRC. The only person to attack in the Waters-Firetti universe was Firetti telling Waters “we will keep suing you and suing you”. Since Firetti’s campaign manager Brian Roherty was with mann on many occassions, we can only assume that by “we” Firetti meant himself, Roherty, and Mann.
Those are rather strange “bedfellows”. Since Roherty is a one man “Right Growth Institute”, Firetti thought signs could vote, and Steve Snow e-mails speak volumes that require absolutely no input from Lori at all to make them very effective.
Sally, I did try to help you by investigating wheter you were being treated fairly by the County. I know it’s conveinant to forget that, but I still have four e-mails from you in which you laid out your case. Interestingly, when I warmed up the phones to investigate the situation, it seemed to gravitate away from your “case” particulars, and head in another direction. Oddly, some 15 people in different agencies and departments all told the same version, and it was at a stark difference with yours. I’m not going to judge who was right, but I did back away from you because all of them seemed to agree on the other version.
The icing on that cake, if I remember was the day I found out that you’d engaged in a lawsuit against the County AFTER the plan Staton substituted for the Burton/Clem Plan ( you have supported the Staton Plan here as fair -if I interpreted your blogging correctly)was voted on, and you became one of 25 who sued over the Staton Plan and thought they were better than the rest of us, and hadn’t gotten their money yet.
How far off am I?
I dare say that a number of folks who do know you well have filled me in.
Dean and Jeff,
Both of you tried to create collusion between me and the Firetti campaign based on nothing. Vince deleted those blogs because they just were not true. I met Brian Roherty for the first time about 3 weeks before the election when he heard me speak at a Board meeting about Cameron Chase. I did not know him, he came up and introduced himself to me. This was after I had made my FOIA’s. The Firetti campaign had NOTHING to do with any of that. Brian had heard about my court case, and came on his own–I had emailed all the press about it, and the board, and many candidates as my own “press release.” I did not even know he was sitting in the back until someone told me days later. Brian and Mike are not helping me, and I have no idea what Mike Firetti might have said to Ms. Waters, but I have nothing to do with it.
Dean, I am tired of your “help” so you can stop. I know you tried to pressure my attorney not to represent me, and you have blogged very insulting things about him, even, for helping me. You have an agenda with a capital A. So quit with the “help.” Anyone who has really looked at my situation knows what it is, and how ridiculously unfairly I have been treated. John Andrews knows. Why don’t you talk to him?
For anyone who cares about what my issue has been with the county read on–otherwise you can skip the rest! My little cluster subdivision is like this: I have a 35 acre parcel. I tried to get a six lot cluster in CR-1 on ten of the acres before the down zoning, and two other lots (one ten acres and one 15 acres.) i wanted to put the smaller lots into trust for my kids (and some nieces/nephews), and spent more than $120,000 doing everything the County/Town of Hamilton asked, including drilling wells. Everything was approved, but I got jerked around at the last second with an Ag district that on its face had expired (the county says it was a typo.) As an heir I had an automatic right to withdraw, but at the time, some asserted that i was not an heir. Since then, in pleadings the county has admitted I was an heir, but they will not admit that I was entitled to withdraw. Then I was down zoned. After the down zoning, since I have 35 acres, I can still do a 6 lot cluster and use my wells. This summer, after a year of litigation, the county finally read the ag district it was applying to me (that on its face had expired) and surprise! realized that it DID allow clustering density for subdivision, on 20 percent of the land–so to “settle” things I agreed to cluster on 7 acres (20 percent of the land) instead of 10 acres. I spent another $30,000 and did everything the county asked, but now the town of Hamilton had a problem and the County jerked me around too, with delays in reviewing the plat and some “creative” comments, asking for things that technically they could not ask for. The biggest problem though was that the new rural cluster regs conflict with the Hamilton One Mile Subdivision regs, and Hamilton wants a waterline, not allowed in AR-1. So, I proposed to keep the CR-1 temporarily, where the waterline is allowed, and vest my plat only adding the waterline that Hamilton wanted. Then when the lots are recorded, I will revert to AR-1.
It is nearly same result. I say six, the county says NO half dozen, and I know the County has spent at least $200,000 to stop my subdivision…why? to me it is a ridiculous waste, but I know you will tell me how wrong I am. Why does the County care so much about this? I am next to an elementary school, and share a quarter mile boundary with the town, I have sewer on my property and the town wanted a water line through it… What is the difference between clustering on ten or seven acres if it settles everything? I certainly think everyone could spend their money more wisely…as you know I had originally (when my plat was sailing through) proposed to build, with my own money, ball fields on at least 2 acres of the land next to the elementary school in honor of my Uncle who had coached little league for decades… i would have much rather spent my money on this than on all this insane litigation. None of this makes any sense to me, but I have resigned myself to the crazy meanness of some in this county–including you Dean, and you too, Jeff Wolinski.
Ric,
I think we’re seeing why certain people were banned from Too Conservative.
Do you really want to allow all these personal attacks on your blog?
Sally, I understand that you’ll get a day in court…so stop trying it in the public blog zone. It’s not helping your case.
I spoke to John as I was exiting another entirely different meeting which I was unaware he was also attending. As I told you…there is a plethora of meetings, and most of them feature the “usual suspects”. I met John back in the last part of 2006, IIRC, and at that time we talked breifly about the state of politics and some about developers build out. That night as I exited the meeting, John extended his hand, and it took me by some suprise and I hesitated shaking his hand. I finally did, and as I did, I also let him know that as passionate as he seemed at a meeting in Lovetsville about opposing the particular development out here (he gave one hell of a speech that night) he was now representing a woman who would set that movement back ten years and that I didn’t understand him for doing it.
I’ve blogged that exact story, and nothing more.
I’m sorry to have to do it, and I take no pleasure in doing it…but I’ll have to call you a liar if you persist that there was anymore to it than that.
“I know you tried to pressure my attorney not to represent me” ?!? Guys, is that libelous? Do I have a case here?
“Truth is, for example, on the growth issue, the “compromise” that was adopted was very close to Clem Burton”
So….you’ll be dropping the lawsuit against the county because of that compromise?
Well, I can see that nothing much is getting resolved here. I didn’t intend for this blog to become yet another battleground so I’m about to do something I’ve never done once in the years I’ve been blogging. I’m calling for no further comments to this post.
I am not deleting them. (I’d shut them down entirely if they’d still stay visible, but they won’t.) They serve as a fair sample of this argument… no, this is a fight not an argument. And I think this one’s gone long enough on this blog.
Ms. Mann, I’ve asked for proof and you’ve steadfastly refused to give it. You’ve been given several opportunities to back up your accusations and you’re not using them. By this I conclude you have no proof and I am uninterested in giving you a platform to continue to fling baseless allegations. If you want to do that, start your own blog and write to your heart’s content. I’m not permitting this here on my blog any further. No, you are not banned from this blog but you are given fair warning that I will not tolerate your accusations further sans proof. Comment on the posts if you like but stick to the topic, lose the personal attacks, and leave the topic of Ms. Waters and whomever else is supposedly plotting against you off this blog until you’re ready to offer up real, substantial proof of your claims. This is my final word on the subject.
To all else (and you know who I’m talking to) so engaged please dial back any personal invective and, if a comment you’re about to make is in doubt as to whether it’s a personal attack, assume it is and don’t click “submit.” You’ll feel better in the long run, I assure you. I appreciate your viewpoints but what has gone on here in these comments is old and clearly isn’t going to be resolved. Let’s let it go and focus on the future.
Good night, all.